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The Red Pill – Rollo Tomassi interview – Part 1



Red Pill, Rollo Tomassi

In this article I interview Rollo Tomassi author of The Rational Male trilogy, blogger at The Rational Male and expert on the Red Pill.

This article is part one of a five part series from the upcoming Life Lessons Podcast and will serve as an introduction to the Red Pill.

Let’s begin: 

What is the red pill?

Michael Frank: What is the red pill?

Rollo Tomassi: People think that pickup artistry or the red pill is all about guys that are obsessed with sex and are just trying to get laid, and that’s all they ever think about. But it’s not that. It’s about guys who want to live better lives, and it blew up really from guys just learning how to get laid to learning how to live a better life.

The fact is that boys and men have been systematically and institutionally feminized for at least the last 50 years. We call that their blue pill conditioning. And it starts very, very early.

What happens is that most guys are taught this Disneyesque fantasy of how the world should work, and they’re conditioned to believe certain things, because if they can be conditioned, they’re more docile, they’re more useful, and they fit into the sexual strategy of women a whole lot better. That’s why they’re primed from the time they’re five years old through the educational system, the media, pop culture, you name it. That feminizing influence on them is what I call blue pill conditioning.

When I talk about the red pill, I’m talking about intersexual dynamics and cutting yourself away from all of that.

Why most guys come to the red pill

Most guys who come to the red pill come to us because they’re looking for answers. They’re looking to find out how do I get my girlfriend back? How do I get my wife to have sex with me again? When they really want to change something about themselves or their lives, they come to us.

Usually when they come to us they’re in a moment of crisis because maybe they’re going through a divorce, or maybe they haven’t had sex with their wife in nine months and they don’t know what happened. They don’t know why they can’t get laid now. Whereas before they got married they were having sex like rabbits. They don’t understand those kinds of things. And so they usually come to us in a time of crisis.

And I think that if you’re a red pill guy and you want to unplug a blue pill guy, you need to wait for those moments, and people say, “That’s what cults do!”

Well, unfortunately that is the only time most people are really willing to have some sort of introspection. When something goes horribly wrong and they have to stop themselves and ask: “What happened?” “Why am I in the position that I’m in right now?”

And then they go and look for answers, and then they get those answers and then they slowly start to unplug themselves from that blue pill conditioning, what we call the Matrix. And a lot of that is really tough for guys.

I think that blue pill guys need to realize that there’s a process to this.

The 5 stages of unplugging

I say that there’s 5 stages of unplugging and it’s not unlike the phases of accepting grief or death:

  1. Denial
  2. Anger
  3. Bargaining
  4. Depression
  5. Acceptance

The reason they’re so similar is because you’re killing off your old personality, the personality that was developed by your blue pill conditioning, and you’re grieving for that person because you really wanted those dreams to come true.

Anger is part of the process of unplugging

It’s really tough for guys when they’re unplugging and often they will mourn that loss. They’ll go, “Oh my God, I used to think that love was about this, and now it’s not. Now you’re telling me that all of these Disney fairy tales that I believed from the time I was five years old, that all my female teachers told me about aren’t true? Oh my God!”

And so they fall into this despondency, this nihilism, and there’s a stage of anger that comes along with that too, and women and guys who are male feminists, and guys who are still stuck in the blue pill, or critics of the red pill, always like to say, “These guys are just angry, they’re always angry, angry, angry”.

Well if you’re a blue pill and you’re in the process of unplugging yourself, you need to understand that anger is a part of that process of unplugging. The anger is not anger at women. It’s anger at yourself. It’s anger at yourself for having believed all those blue pill bullshit Disney lies for as long as you did.

And that should be something that guys get past. But some guys don’t. I’m not gonna lie here. I’m not going to say that some men don’t get stuck in that anger phase, they do, but most of them don’t.

Once your eyes are opened there’s no going back

When most guys have their eyes opened, once they’re seeing the world around them through what I call the Red Pill Lens there’s no going back. So even if they go into denial, there’s always something that’s going to happen in their periphery, maybe a story on the news, or maybe their sister gets divorced and then divorce rapes her husband, there’s all kinds of things that guys can’t ignore, so there’s no going back.

And it’s like they said in The Matrix:

“Even if you could, would you really want to go back?”

Because you know you will be living a lie.

The Purple Pill

I think the biggest thing that blue pill guys need to understand is that there’s no going back, and you will never achieve your blue pill idealistic goals with red pill awareness.

This is what Purple Pill guys do, they take the red pill in a half measure. They only accept the stuff they like, or the stuff they think is flattering to women, or the stuff that doesn’t kill off their blue pill idealisms. And then they go back to believing in that blue pill stuff.

Purple Pill guys think: “I’m red pill enough to get my dream girl, and I now know enough about the game that I can now go and have a white picket fence and a dog in the yard and 2.5 kids and I can make this happen because I know enough red pill stuff, right?”

What they have to accept though, that most purple pill guys don’t, is that the goals and the idealism that your blue pill conditioning taught you is a lie, and that it was not achievable even in a red pill context.

Dream girls and children with dynamite

In fact, just holding on to that blue pill idealism is actually setting you up for a worse disaster than if you had just kept your head in the sand and you’d never heard of the red pill before.

Because what purple pill guys do is they try to make that work. I have a great post called Dream Girls and Children with Dynamite where I say that back in the pickup artist days guys would say:

  • Here’s some scripts that are going to work for you
  • Here’s how you can get laid
  • Here’s how you can get chicks
  • Here’s how to peacock
  • Here’s how to use cocky funny
  • Here’s how to do a neg hit

And you know what?

Those scripts really did work for them, and they could get pretty much the girls that they could never get before.

Now, granted, they might have improved their looks and done some other stuff too, but it was a fundamental change in how they interacted with women. It was no longer them supplicating to women. It was no longer them being the one who is qualifying all the time, they were getting women to qualify to them. And so suddenly they were getting all of these girls to come around to them, and they’re thinking this is great.

So what are they going to do with that? Well, they’ve never really had the red pill presented to them. So they’re going to try to use all of these pickup artist techniques to get their dream girl. And that saying actually comes from Ross Jeffries who said in The Game that guys having this pickup artist information is like giving dynamite to children, because it’s going to blow up in their face.

And so what they do is they go out and try to find their dream girl without realizing that that dream girl is really a blue pill, idealistic lie. So they’ll go and they’ll get that girl, and that girl will be BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder), or there will be something else, because they don’t understand the fundamental nature of women that the red pill teaches, they only know how to peripherally get into that girl’s pants, but they don’t know what to do with her afterwards.

So it’s like going into a Karate Dojo and saying, “You know what, I don’t want any of that white belt, orange belt or green belt stuff, just give me the black belt right away”. Well what’s going to happen when you get into the ring is you’re going to get your ass kicked. It’s just going to explode in your face. And this is why when I look at guys like Mystery the old famous pickup artist, he’s still around I think, but Mystery has always been suicidal, because he’s been trying for a very long time to use what he knows of pickup artistry to make his blue pill dreams come true.

The problem is that those blue pill dreams are bullshit, and he still won’t accept that they’re bullshit, and so he’d rather live in this state of frustration and nihilism and never find love, because he doesn’t understand that men and women love each other differently. (More about this in part two tomorrow)

Red Pill awareness = better life

Guys need to know that although they will never create their blue pill fantasy world with red pill awareness, they can make a better life for themselves with it.

There’s more opportunity within a red pill paradigm than there ever was on the blue pill side, because the blue pill conditioning that you were put through from the time you were a kid was there to make you useful to women’s sexual strategies, and to make you useful to a feminine primary social order.

When guys are cut away from that, they don’t know what to do with themselves. They’re like, I’m rudderless, I have no idea what I should do now, woe is me, it’s all nihilism and despondency, right?

Well, no, you just haven’t realized that there’s more opportunity in the red pill paradigm.

Now you have the truth, what are you going to do with it?

How are you going to rebuild your life?

How are you going to make yourself a better person?

How are you going to live a better life?

And there’s so much to do with it.

You’re setting yourself free.

The truth will set you free, but…

And the truth will set you free, but it doesn’t make it any less ugly, and it doesn’t make it hurt any less either. And guys don’t like that.

“It’s the truth, but it hurts”.

Yes, but there’s no going back.

If you try to go back the dynamite is going to blow up in your face.

But you have more potential now in a red pill paradigm because it’s the truth and you know the truth. And now you can build new goals and new dreams based on a true paradigm, as opposed to the old false one you were cut from.

What is a rational male?

Michael Frank: Your blog and first book is called “The Rational Male.” What is a “Rational Male”?

Rollo Tomassi: Well, pretty much every guy is a Rational Male.

The problem is that we’ve been taught for at least the last 50 years to try to prioritize our emotions before reason and rationale, and since the sexual revolution, there has been this concentrated systemic effort to feminize men and to masculinize women, and the process is that they must teach our boys as if they were defective girls. And if that is the pretense, what that means is that whatever is feminine is correct. That’s the pretense, and that’s what we’re supposed to believe ever since 1965.

The Women’s March was recently held in the United States, and the premise of that is that we believe that whatever is feminine is correct. That’s the catchphrase, right? “Believe Women”

And so we believe in whatever a woman says, or whatever a woman is feeling, because women prioritize feelings first, so we should prioritize feelings first. Men should be more like women, we should get in touch with our feminine side, right? Well, what does that mean? That means prioritizing emotion above reason, and that’s where you get these generations of guys, we call them soy boys, guys who have been taught from a very early age to act and emote like women because they believe that is the correct way.

You’ve got the American Psychological Association, basically declaring this holy decree that traditional masculinity is a disease, or it’s some sort of psychological disorder, and that is exactly what I’m talking about here. What that says is that the way men do it is wrong. And the way that women do it is right. And if you’re not doing it like women, if you’re not emoting like women, if you’re not prioritizing emotion above reason, then you’re doing it wrong.

And that’s what we teach our boys. We teach them the more feminine they are, the more they’re in touch with their feminine side, the more they’re sensitive to the feminine, the more they support the feminine, the more they think about the feminine all the time, the better off they’ll be, and the better person they’ll be. We have signs and placards at the Women’s March that say “Boys will be boys”, but the word “boys” at the bottom is scratched out, and instead it says “Good humans”.

So what that means is that if you were born a boy, you were born a bad human, and you need to learn how to be a good human. So how do I learn that? Well, the correct way is to be more feminine, more like a woman, and I would say that at least for the last four or five generations we have taught boys that if they’re more like a woman, if they’re more feminine, then they’re better off, they’re better people, they’re “good humans”.

So what I encourage guys to do is to get in touch with your inner asshole, get in touch with your masculinity, and embrace it.

Because right now we have so many guys that don’t even know what masculinity is. They’ve never been taught it. They can kind of feel it because they have testosterone in their blood stream and they feel bad for it. They’re taught to loathe their own gender, because they want to be more like women. That’s why I say that we treat them as if they’re defective girls because they should be, if they’re just girls, they’d be better off. So we have to make boys feel as if being a boy is a bad thing.

Because again, they’re not “good humans”. So what happens is we teach boys that, and then you have generation after generation of guys who are trying to out emote each other. But they’re fighting against their evolved nature.

Men tend to be:

  1. Instinctual
  2. Rational
  3. Emotional

Whereas women tend to be:

  1. Instinctual
  2. Emotional
  3. Rational

And they think that’s the way it should be.

In fact, there’s dozens of different studies about how men and women process emotion differently, but we ignore that stuff. We just throw that shit out the window because we don’t want to upset the feminine “correct” narrative, or what I call the feminine imperative

So what is a rational male?

A rational male is a guy who embraces his rational side, and his conventional masculinity, and works his natural predispositions and the world be damned.

Because right now it’s a big meta shit test for guys to put that off, to say: You know what? Fuck you and I’m going to be who I’m going to be, because this is the way that I was made, and there’s nothing wrong with me being a masculine male, a rational male, a guy who embraces his masculinity, and is unapologetic about that.

Because right now, especially today in 2019, there are so many guys that just simply want to apologize “I’m sorry to offend you with my maleness”

I mean, that’s what the whole Gillette commercial was about. In fact, the feminine imperative, what I call the village, wants men to police other men so that they’ll stay in that state of feminization. “Hey bro, don’t go and do that, because that wouldn’t be correct”, because the “correct” response is to be more like a woman.

So I think a rational guy is somebody who embraces that rational side and doesn’t try to fight it or put it off, a guy who rejects his conditioning and programming that says he needs to be more feminine.

And what I’m trying to do essentially is to get guys to embrace that rational side and to not feel guilty about not being as emotional as a woman, or think that they’re bad or that there’s something wrong with them because they have testosterone running through their bloodstream, or because they care more about things than about people.

And I’m not saying you shouldn’t care about people. Just because you think about one thing, that doesn’t mean you’re not thinking about the other thing. That’s binary, black and white thinking.

This concludes part one of my interview with Rollo Tomassi. Part two tomorrow will focus on Red Pill Truths. 


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